I talked to this guy on Fri 6/22 about XXX Client (our client) and their open position. At great length, mind you. I presented his resume on Friday to our client and on Monday 6/25, the client requested an interview (which PS 24-business hours after making a presentation to a client to getting feedback on an interview is rarer than you’d think!!). I call him on Mon 6/25 and he can’t remember who I am, where I am calling from, who our client is and what the job description is. Ok, you know what, I let that slide. It was a red flag, but I was willing to let it slide since the market is picking up and things are hard to keep track of. But this guy proceeded to actually lose his shit, entirely. It’s been a bit since I have had to deal with someone like this, but make no mistake, I haven’t forgotten how to deal with someone like this.
Enjoy taking a look through the window of what the day in the life of an IT Recruiter looks like! Sigh…
On Jun 19, 2012, at 8:17 PM, "Christopher"
I am therefore cancelling my interview appointment, as I really don’t have any interest in being a web designer, which is what this job entails, but I thank you for your time. Please extend my apologies to the people at CLIENT.
Best Regards,
Hi, Angela.
I was reading the interview requirements again, and they clearly are looking for more of a web designer, than a programmer, and I am not going to be the right fit. Yes, they are looking for ASP, and VB.NET, but 98% of their interview criteria involves the web design front end of ASP, and I am a backend / database programmer.
Chris
--- On Tue, 6/19/12, Angela
Chris – Trust me, you're a good fit for their opening. The job description is really puffed up to entice the unicorn that they'd ideally want for this position, but it’s not an absolute must on all of their requirements. Tell you what, go to the interview and learn about the position and then make a decision if you think you'd be a good fit or not!
And it is a backed / middle-tier developer that can make the front-end functional. This is not the type of role you think it is. I’m telling you that I believe it would be a mistake to not attend the interview for the reasons you are trying to cancel it, as you seem a bit misinformed.
-Angela
From: Angela
Subject: Re: (.NET): Face-to-Face Interview Thurs 6/21 @ 11:00am – PLEASE Reply!
To: "Christopher"
Date: Tuesday, June 19, 2012, 9:09 PM
Sent from my iPhone. Please excuse any errors!
On Jun 20, 2012, at 1:17 AM, "Christopher"
This is a person who doesn’t understand programming, and I will meet with them only under ONE condition. That condition being that front end design theory will not be discussed from the aspect of design engines...I do not discuss that, because that is what web based children who design video games, discuss, and I am not interested in that theory.
I also am not interested in the concept of centralized web based design, because it is slow, and cumbersome. If they want speed, then they will not interview me about MVC, or how SOAP or XML works. These are concepts of how information is delivered, and these are already on the web. If they don’t know this, then this is FREE! You TELL them this.
You send them this as my answer, and if they want to talk to me after this, then *I* will make time to speak to them.
Databases, I will discuss. I will discuss how to address them and retrieve information from them. I will show them how to utilize them in databases. I will NOT, however, answer questions about LINQ, or ADO, unless more money is discussed first, and we are talking over $100,000/ year before I even discuss this.
If I am to be interviewed, it certainly will be not over some "webmaster" who wants to lord over me. Tell them that if this is the case, they can look elsewhere, or pay up. The price is now $110,000, or $75/hr. This is to put up with what must be dealt with, by freaking "Web designers"...You TELL them I SAID that, too!
Regards,
No. What I am seeing is someone at their end, who is a web designer, and wants someone who will describe front end coding, they way they learned it.
Chris
--- On Wed, 6/20/12, Angela
Chris – I made them aware of your feelings and they still want to see you tomorrow. Please confirm that you will be attending.
Angela
(ASIDE: Now, let’s get honest up in here… like I REALLY sent that email to my client?! Are you kidding me?! This guy was a real piece of work and for that immediate moment, I was going to allow him the benefit of the doubt that he’d lost his damned mind for a quick moment and would get his shit together if lovingly pushed!!)
Angela,
Gasoline is expensive, and I don’t want to spend my money and waste my time (and theirs too), just to go down there, and have some web developer brow beat me about web front end design is actually programming, in his opinion. Besides, are you telling me that these guys are willing to meet my expected rate?
Chris
From: Angela
Subject: Re: (.NET): Face-to-Face Interview Thurs 6/21 @ 11:00am - PLEASE Reply!
To: "Christopher"
Date: Wednesday, June 20, 2012, 7:02 AM
From: Christopher [mailto:XXX]
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 1:58 PM
To: Angela
Subject: Re: (.NET): Face-to-Face Interview Thurs 6/21 @ 11:00am - PLEASE Reply!
My appointment was for Thursday, and I am not planning to attend. I mentioned in my earlier message that I wanted a higher rate; the fact that they still want to meet with me after hearing that, indicates that something is seriously wrong with this opportunity.
--- On Wed, 6/20/12, Angela
Chris –
But if you think you know my client better than I do and you are going to try and dictate to me or XXX Client in regards to what we’re going to do for you, you have another thing coming. Since the position ISN’T a front end developer position, there’s no reason to list your demands to them. PS – if I had sent the email to XXX Client as you demanded I do, it would have been to your detriment. I, plain and simple, re-verified that the role wasn’t a front end developer and they confirmed it. You’d have to be a few screws loose if you thought I would just forward that email you sent to me to XXX Client.
Either way, you sound like you will be one issue after another and I have to assume if you feel comfortable enough to try and tell me what I am going to do and then send your list of ridiculous demands to XXX Client, then you’re a ticking time bomb of which I don’t want my name attached to OR my company’s name attached to you for that matter. You can continue to remain unemployed like you have since April 2012, until you wake up and realize you don’t run the universe.
AND just as a final kicker, I will forward your email to XXX Client now. I can promise you that when I do that and XXX Client makes others in the industry aware of your behavior and attitude, you might find that that little letter you sent might come back to bite you in the rear for years to come. This is a small market place and people know people. I can assure you that you aren’t as important as you think you are. Turns out, you probably need to learn that the hard way by continuing to be unemployed and wondering why some company isn’t snatching up your amazingness.
End result – I am canceling the interview and I am marking you as DO NOT RECRUIT within our system and any other agencies systems that I have contacts within.
Angela
From: Angela
Subject: RE: (.NET): Face-to-Face Interview Thurs 6/21 @ 11:00am - PLEASE Reply!
To: "Christopher"
Date: Wednesday, June 20, 2012, 2:13 PM
No. You decided to determine that the position is something it’s not. And in your rant to me about what I can tell XXX Client to do and this that and the other of demands you made in your emails from last night, you stated that if the role WAS the way you incorrectly determined it to be, then your price would go up. I have told you, and told you, and told you that what you think the position is and what the position actually is – are NOT CORRECT. This isn’t my first rodeo with XXX Client and we placed another VB.NET developer with them in the same group this month who, just for your piece of mind, is NOT DOING FRONT END DEVELOPMENT.
--- On Thurs, 6/21/12, Christopher
Angela,
This is, in fact, a web design position. Here's why: Looking through your hit list of interview questions, all but ONE involves tools for front-end web design. ALL BUT ONE. This is not a figment of my imagination, but something that comes from 27 years of experience in the field. I will not interview for this premise alone, unless my gasoline and time are compensated for, in advance.
Second, XXX Client is a marketing company, not a solutions provider. I have worked with marketing companies before, and they work with web sites. This is what they do, Angela, they work with web sites and web design, because that is marketing. I did some research, and have spoken to people who have worked for them, and they are a group of web centric graphic designers. This is what they ARE; again, NOT a figment of my imagination. Yes, they might have some programming involved, but that is not their primary focus, and they are looking for someone who is 99% driven by things like "look" and "feel", and after speaking to several former employees, I know this to be a fact; they are looking for graphic designers who happen to program. This is not me.
What’s wrong with this company, anyway? Why the hard sell? ....I already know the answer, and it is that they are a difficult group of personalities, with unrealistic expectations, and more ego than talent. That's what I have heard about them. Currently, they are looking for someone who can take over a legacy project, that is a pain in the ass to some account executive. See Angela, I have done my research too. They have some job that the customer insists on being done a certain way, and they are looking for a whipping boy to fade their heat. When the job is complete, the boy gets fired. Sorry, no sale. Not without a LARGE amount of money, and I even insist on being paid just to talk to them.
Let them know that I will still talk to them, but they will pay me for the appointment. I want $100 dollars just to show up, and I will insist that there be a scope of questions to be asked, in writing, that they and you will sign in advance. I also expect to be paid in advance. If any of the questions deviate from scope, I walk. It will also be in writing that my rate is not negotiable, and that after the interview, if they choose to hire me, that they will pay my salary as a contract, with specific terms, that will guarantee both my work, and their commitment.
I want you to know that didn't bother to read your message. I find it tiresome that you would rather argue, than simply recognize that an opportunity is not a good fit. I would like to remain engaged with your organization, yet, I know a hard sell when I hear one, and after 27 years in my business, I also know when someone is trying to screw me.
Chris
From: Christopher [mailto:XXX]
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2012 9:15 AM
To: Angela
Subject: RE: (.NET): Face-to-Face Interview Thurs 6/21 @ 11:00am - PLEASE Reply!
Really? My first question is why do you keep trying to convince me to attend an interview for a position that I'm clearly not interested in? Is this some sort of challenge for you that must be met? I'm not, however, going to disengage, but rather clarify what I know from my experience, so that you understand things moving forward.
--- On Thurs, 6/21/12, Angela
Chris –
HAHAHA! Um, no. I sent your little email to them yesterday, as I said I would per YOUR DEMAND. And they on their own, marked you in their systems as – DO NOT RECRUIT. And I didn’t even add my 2 cents in. I didn’t need to. You did a bang up job of getting yourself eliminated from consideration at XXX Client, probably for forever. Pretty much what I said would happen if I did forward your email to them. You seriously need to wake up man, because I am starting to think that you might actually be delusional.
Chris – My advice to you, and take this for what it’s worth, is to stop talking. I didn’t try very hard to convince you to do anything. I merely pointed out that you were wrong and my recommendation was to attend the interview and make an assessment of what the position is and your interest level AFTER you speak with XXX Client.
When you wrote me back an email of demands that were so ludicrous I almost thought it was a joke, I realized then that I wasn’t dealing with a logical rational individual. You apparently have everything all figured out and you know everything about everything and everyone. That’s fine with me. I don’t work with individuals that clearly don’t have a vested interested in their job search.
The simple truth of the matter is this – If you don’t want to attend the interview for a list of reasons that aren’t even accurate, fine by me. There are is list of people, a majority of which are far more qualified than you are for any .NET positions we have open, that WANT to be an active participant in their job search. I don’t need to work with you. Not only do I not need to, but I won’t.
And it’s funny, because I did reach out to my contacts in the market and let them know to be on the lookout for you. And of the 3 different people from 3 separate companies that I talked to yesterday, every single one of them had you as DO NOT RECRUIT in their systems as well – BEFORE, I made them aware of what I knew about you. This is a classic example of – it’s not everybody else… it’s you. You should try getting caught up and maybe change your behavior in an attempt to change this negative perception. I personally don’t care if you wake up and have an insightful realization about yourself. You’re 1 in a sea of many. In the future, it will help you to remember that little fact.
In conclusion, please don’t continue to email me. And if you choose to reply again, don’t be surprised if I don’t reply back. It sounds like you are handling your reputation very well in the market right now all by yourself. I’d recommend that you stop trying to have a conversation with me, defending your opinion, and start worrying about what you are going to do for a job. I have a job, so I don’t have to think about that or you, any further.
Best of luck out there… it sounds like it’s going to be a real tough road ahead for you. But it’s in the truly trying times that you might learn something, grow and be better. Key word: MIGHT.
Angela
From: Angela
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2012 9:53 AM
To: Christopher
Subject: RE: (.NET): Face-to-Face Interview Thurs 6/21 @ 11:00am - PLEASE Reply!
Have you lost your mind? (and I wanted to say your DAMNED mind, but refrained)
“Let them know that I will still talk to them, but they will pay me for the appointment. I want 100 dollars just to show up, and I will insist that there be a scope of questions to be asked, in writing, that they and you will sign in advance. I also expect to be paid in advance.”
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